Wind turbine presentation to Parish Meeting

[minniemagoo]

A presentation was made to the Annual Parish Meeting on 20 May 2008 by the Windmill Committee;  it covers plans to install a wind turbine at the Centre. A pdf may be seen by going to http://www.deddington.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/958/turbineatparishmtg.pdf

[VoiceofReason]

Being unable to attend the Parish Meeting I have read the presentation document and to be honest I find it incredible that this idea is being seriously considered. I totally agree that we need to save energy and reduce carbon emissions but this idea is like pouring water into a barrel without fixing the leak first. This project will cost £50,000. Wouldn't it make sense to reduce the heat loss from the building in the first place, like most sensible housholders are doing, before spending a large sum of money on such a scheme. People who visit and use the centre will know that radiators are on for a lot of the time, even in summer. For a fraction of the cost, double glazing could be installed, thermostatic radiator valves fitted and even better insulation considered, especially to the roof. Have solar panels been considered, easier to install, noiseless and unobtrusive.

 

[RightThinker]

I understand and agree with your comments about the insulation of the building. However, the current heating system is via gas, and improving the insulation will help reduce that expenditure. The proposed windmill will produce electricity which will have little to do with the heating. I would be surprised if the Windmill Committee isn’t investigating all aspects of improving the building’s performance.

One of the advantages of a wind turbine is that it will work whenever it is windy, day or night. Its output does not have to be stored because excess power can be sold back to the grid. Because of this, the efficiency of such a device is several times higher than a solar energy collection system which will only work when it is light, and the cost per watt of solar arrays are much higher than wind.

It is a very sensible way of reducing the operating costs of an important village asset.

[VoiceofReason]

Here we go, just as I thought, the only answer is a wind turbine. We must have one of those because it produces electricity, not gas.
It will work when it’s windy, whereas solar panels will only work when it’s light, strange that, we must be living in the dark ages, although it did get light at about 4.45am this morning and surprisingly at 8.45pm its still light. Joking aside, I thought the concept was to reduce the amount of energy consumed by the Windmill Centre, not just the electricity, but the total energy consumption. I would be quite happy to bet that the largest part of the energy bill goes on gas heating, but that’s OK, that can be wasted if savings are made on electricity. You say you would be surprised if the Committee isn’t investigating all aspects of improving the buildings performance, I would say I would be surprised if they are because they would be seriously looking at the terrible waste in energy costs from within building in the first instance. As far as the argument goes between wind and solar power, that is a totally separate argument and has nothing to with wasting resources. Like I said before, what is the point of pouring water into a barrel without first fixing the leak.

[RightThinker]

Here we go, just as I thought, the only answer is a wind turbine. We must have one of those because it produces electricity, not gas.
 

Who said it is the only answer?

It produces electricity, and the excess can be sold back to the grid.

I would be quite happy to bet that the largest part of the energy bill goes on gas heating, but that’s OK, that can be wasted if savings are made on electricity. You say you would be surprised if the Committee isn’t investigating all aspects of improving the buildings performance, I would say I would be surprised if they are because they would be seriously looking at the terrible waste in energy costs from within building in the first instance.

How do you know they are not looking at the energy wastage?  Does the windmill project prevent them from looking at traditional energy savings?

As far as the argument goes between wind and solar power, that is a totally separate argument and has nothing to with wasting resources.

It was your suggestion. In an earlier post you said:
“Have solar panels been considered, easier to install, noiseless and unobtrusive.”

[VoiceofReason]

I am happy to answer your points, but I draw the line when it comes to cutting and pasting.

You answered the first point yourself when your reply extolled the virtue of producing electricity.

In answer to your second point, of course I don’t know if they are looking at energy wastage, but when I walk into that building in the morning and find that it is very warm and the radiators seem to have been on all night I have my doubts. And you are right, this project does not prevent them looking at energy savings. Perhaps they are or perhaps they are not. All I see is a proposal to erect a wind turbine to reduce energy costs whilst there seems to be no plan to reduce the heat loss from the building. If there is such a plan then please let me know, I will be the first to applaud it.

On the third and final point, I admit you have me beaten, I don’t understand what you are trying to say. I thought the point I was making throughout was about energy wastage, not how to replace it.

[minniemagoo]

Since 2005 the Windmill Management Committee has been carrying out an annual audit of energy used in the Centre, to look at ways of cutting consumption of gas, electricity and water. We regularly monitor energy bills, looking for the ‘best buy’. The cavity walls and roof are insulated, and we have installed low energy light bulbs. The lights in the loos are now activated by people and are on only when in use. The outside lights have been changed to be activated only by night movement and cannot be switched on manually as before. Current expenditure on electricity is just under £1700 p.a. (including the all-weather court floodlights), compared with £400-600 for an average house.

We know the gas heating has its problems - it has been there since the building opened in 1986! We are looking at the whole central heating system and at the very least a new energy efficient condensing gas boiler is to be installed in July, with thermostatic valves on all radiators, a new controller and repiping to resolve the problem of some radiators apparently staying hot. It will be capable of having radiators added to replace the stand-alone heaters in the committee room and youth room, once we agree on the need and find additional funding. The turbine is, of course, for electricity and will not replace the gas heating. Current expenditure on gas is just under £2700 p.a. compared with £650-800 for an average house.

For the future, we have considered solar panels (and will do so again if the current planning application for a wind turbine is not successful), but they are very expensive, less cost-effective (the payback time is longer) and subject to vandalism. The possibility of a ground source heat pump to help with heating the centre building will also be considered. The approach is to manage the centre as it stands now and at the same time to look at ways of improving energy efficiency for the future.

[VoiceofReason]

At last, a sensible answer, something is being done to reduce the energy wastage from the Centre and I quite rightly applaud these measures. I realise that matters involving energy conservation must be ongoing, but what about double glazing, there is quite a large area of glass and then you mention the committee room and youth room which need to be sorted once you agree on a need and funding. Why don't you ask the anonymous benfactor, who has agreed to give you £5000 towards a wind turbine, if it is OK to use the donation instead to reduce the energy bill by installing double glazing and replacing the stand-alone heaters. Perhaps then we would'nt need to spend £50,000 on a wind turbine.

[Alancollins39]

This is all good, interesting and robust stuff. Well done.

I have been tasked with conducting a consultation exercise on this subject by the Parish Council (of which I am a member).

At the Parish Meeting I asked some of our neighbours who had concerns if they would meet with the team to discuss the issues they raised but no one was smart enough to take names ( I thought the elders would know all the names - but they didn't and the one who we did know has not been able to give us any insight).

So could I ask anyone with a view, for, against or want more info to contact me on deddwincon@aol.com. I would ask for names and location within the parish when people contact me please? (the logon names are entertaining but not really admissable). Legaly you must all beware that your submissions - while not for widespread publication will be in the public domain - as would any planning objection or any comunication wiothe the Parish Council. Please pass this on to anyone you know with an input and if they don't have email access then please ask them to write the Parish Council Office at the Windmill Centre marking it Windmill consultation (or turbine if you prefer).

My task is purely to ensure the argument is dealt with rationally, with good - verifiable science and is devoid of emotion or the influence of zeitgeist and modern trends. I have already started this process with one individual and a local club. I also intend to leaflet Mill Close with a similar appeal.

So please join in. I have no axe to grind other than rational debate.

Regards

Alan Collins
(A Clifton resident!)